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Commander Tzu
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
17
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Posted - 2013.10.22 00:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Void Echo wrote:
your making yourself look to stupid to do more than one thing, if 6 avers are on the field, and 6 tankers, then 3 of them would each have their own tank to destroy, and if theres 3 avrs on the field, those 3 avrs would destroy all the tanks in the battle... seriously, your amiability to multitask is pathetic.
Ok echo, i forgot you are a VERY slow dude here i go again: GÖª If 2 Guys are needed to take down ONE tank. GÖª The 6 Avers and 6 Tankers have lets say 15 Mill SP, and are EQUALLY skilled, there by PERFECT matchmaking. GÖª We put the 6 AVers and The 6 TAnks in a 300mts completley PLAIN terrain. GÖª The 6 Tankers will win, 100% of the time. GÖª Because to take out the 6 tankers you would need 12 AVers; 6 Avers will only take down 3 and then get outdamaged by the other 3 tanks. I understand where you are coming from with your little re7arded explanation, but im assuming the Tankers are actually doing something more than standing still. DUh....
Sir, I don't wish to be rude but your comments make me concerned for your safety. The logic, for lack of a better word, you used is quite bad and I just hope you know that you really shouldn't try to save time by keeping a toaster in your shower so you can kill two birds with one stone (also, that is just an expression, please don't try to kill two birds with one stone as it often times fails and breaks windows instead). Six AVers going against six tanks would actually have a good shot at winning if they were smart about it (e.g., if you weren't one of them). Currently, a full squad of AV troops with the same tier weapons as the tank's modules like you said would actually be able to destroy a tank in one or two volleys, meaning if they concentrated on one at a time they could make short work of the whole enemy armored unit. The key here though, is that they use their dropsuits to their advantage; too many times I see people with swarms or forge guns standing still while not in cover to shoot me. Infantry have a huge advantage that few people seem to realize; extreme mobility. They can get on the side of a mountain and hide in the ridges, meaning only a direct impact can kill them and severely reducing the tank's ability to change firing angles for a more favorable shot. Even in Chromosome when my tank could soak up large amounts of damage, there were still squads I had to be VERY careful around, they knew exactly how to use this to their advantage and if I didn't have infantry support it could take only two with nanos to lock me out of entire sides of the map. |
Commander Tzu
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
18
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Posted - 2013.10.22 01:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Void Echo wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Void Echo wrote:
your making yourself look to stupid to do more than one thing, if 6 avers are on the field, and 6 tankers, then 3 of them would each have their own tank to destroy, and if theres 3 avrs on the field, those 3 avrs would destroy all the tanks in the battle... seriously, your amiability to multitask is pathetic.
Ok echo, i forgot you are a VERY slow dude here i go again: GÖª If 2 Guys are needed to take down ONE tank. 3 guys would be balance..GÖª The 6 Avers and 6 Tankers have lets say 15 Mill SP, and are EQUALLY skilled, there by PERFECT matchmaking. then the avers would decimate the tankers before they got halfway through the map. GÖª We put the 6 AVers and The 6 TAnks in a 300mts completley PLAIN terrain. avers would win in less than a minute.GÖª The 6 Tankers will win, 100% of the time. lol no we wouldn't win, with the efficiency of av vs tanks, if the av is standing completely still and doing nothing, then we would win.GÖª Because to take out the 6 tankers you would need 12 AVers; 6 Avers will only take down 3 and then get outdamaged by the other 3 tanks. in order to take out one tank you would need 3 avers, so IF THERE IS MORE THAN ONE TANK ON THE FIELD, THOSE 3 GUYS WOULD BE ALL YOU NEED TO DESTROY THE TANKS.I understand where you are coming from with your little re7arded explanation, but im assuming the avers are actually doing something more than standing still. DUh.... im talking in the case tank get a buff, Av an nerf an 2+ Avers are needed to take down 1 single tank, yall of your answers are assuming everything stay as it is, except the fist one : ''3 guys would be balance..'' which confirmes you are a demented biased tanker.
So in your view of the 1.7 changes it will take three AVers to kill a tank? So that still means if all 6 AVers concentrate their fire on a single tank they can take it down fast. Plus, I really don't want to make any judgements about the updates in 1.7, the data I have seen is a little difficult to apply practically since so many of the modules have drastic changes made. Plus, I see too many things wrong in what the changes are going to be to get a good idea on what Tank vs AV warfare is going to be. |
Commander Tzu
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
19
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Posted - 2013.10.22 02:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Well this thread is getting boring, all QQ threads have a limited life, within which they are fun and entertaining but now I think this one is on it's last legs, just gonna devolve into petty arguments (Which are entertaining still sure, but more so over the voice channels). Anyway, I have been saying the problem with this balancing issue is actually a lot simpler than people make it out to be. Point in case: render issue. This one problem is throwing off everyone's data about balancing, an invisible enemy is invincible as far as his target is concerned. And, honestly, I think if the ISK cost was reduced it would balance this out, forget about PC because as people have said these corps/alliances have infinite ISK so 1.5m and 700k are effectively the same to them, but it would help with perceived balance anyway. Or, keep the costs the same and give us back our +5% to PG skill, AV would still do a ton of damage but with a little bit more health it might help bring it between Chromosome and what it is currently. |
Commander Tzu
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
19
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Posted - 2013.10.22 02:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Well you have your Soma at standard, Madrugger at adv and Surya/Falcion at proto.
Um, wrong, the Soma is actually Militia, so it's less than standard which leaves the Madrugar as the standard level and the Surya at Advanced. And yea Enforcers suck so they aren't exactly "Advanced", why do you think they are being removed with all the other vehicle variants that don't work? |
Commander Tzu
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
20
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Posted - 2013.10.22 02:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Commander Tzu wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Well you have your Soma at standard, Madrugger at adv and Surya/Falcion at proto. Um, wrong, the Soma is actually Militia, so it's less than standard which leaves the Madrugar as the standard level and the Surya at Advanced. And yea Enforcers suck so they aren't exactly "Advanced", why do you think they are being removed with all the other vehicle variants that don't work? Most Milita = Standard with a slight notch in it. Which comes in the form of higher fitting which at low level don't matter jack much.
Yea, I guess your right, which is why you see so many people running proto gear on milita suits, because they are just so similar to standard level. Oh, wait, they actually have fewer slots so they are much weaker and can't be fit as well, especially in vehicles where you can gain up to two slots, which vastly improves your fitting potential and survivability. But, you are correct, apart from the fact that Militia is worse in almost every measurable way they are so close to standard it's scary. /sarcasm.
P.S. only a few hours left in this thread, hurry and reply, I can't wait to poke holes in all your silly little arguments! |
Commander Tzu
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
20
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Posted - 2013.10.22 02:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Void Echo wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Well you have your Vayu/Falcion at militia, Sica/Soma at standard, and Gunnlogi/Madrugger at adv. fixed it for you Stats wise maybe, tree wise far from. well.. when it comes to combat effectiveness and efficiency, the way I just reposted your comment is correct. why do some people actually use them? they aren't worth the isk they cost.
Dude shutup, do you have any idea how much more money and salvage I get when people call in those Failtanks =) |
Commander Tzu
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
20
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Posted - 2013.10.22 02:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yea! so shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh xD. |
Commander Tzu
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
20
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Posted - 2013.10.22 02:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Hey for all those who doubt that I have a tank, I'll be on in 10 minutes if you have to see it to believe it.
I doubt you have the ability to order a pizza from one of the restaurants in my town and have it delivered to me, PROVE ME WRONG! Pepperoni please!
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Commander Tzu
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
20
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Posted - 2013.10.22 02:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Atiim wrote:Commander Tzu wrote:Atiim wrote:Hey for all those who doubt that I have a tank, I'll be on in 10 minutes if you have to see it to believe it. I doubt you have the ability to order a pizza from one of the restaurants in my town and have it delivered to me, PROVE ME WRONG! Pepperoni please! I'll bet you 20 Million ISK Mail me in-game if your on
Hold on I will be on in a minute, this is a lot of work just for you to have a pizza delivered to me xD. |
Commander Tzu
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
20
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Posted - 2013.10.22 03:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Alldin Kan wrote:I have a Falchion at Level 3 with proto missile turrets, two 30% hardeners, 6300 Shields and 2 Damage mods but it wasn't enough to destroy a Ion Cannon Madrugar with 5000 Armor + Proto Rep + 2 hardeners... I TRIED MY BEST DAMN IT.
Pizza. Pizza solves everything. |
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Commander Tzu
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
20
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Posted - 2013.10.22 17:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:This? Again?
But here is a simple question, why should 1 man in a tank, require more than 1 man with av to neutrilize?
Answers that aren't valid:
I have invested Money and SP
So did the guy using Proto AV
Its a tank
Against anti-tank weaponry
It doesn't fit the rock paper scissors style of this game
Of course it does Infantry < Tank < AV < Infantry
Its supposed to be highly armoured
So is the heavy
Our weapons are useless
The new ones coming soon look pretty damn good to me
I can't fufill my role if I can't stay on the frontline
of course you can, tanks are infantry close support, not muderous juggernauts Why cant the best counter to a tank be another tank? Investing less than 2mil for lolswarms is not an investment when it takes at least 8mil for the basic tank and costs 10times more at least, at least investing in the FG is more of an investement because of the suit Its a tank, meaning its supposed to be the most heavily armored thing on the battlefield, yet it get solo'd frequently because lolbasic vehicle vs proto AV The heavy is not that highly armored, also a scout or medium suit using swarms is not highly armored at all so that goes out the window completely as they bunny hop the map Our weapons are useless, blaster hit detection is poor, railguns have less damage and splash than a FG while costing 10times more in ISK, missiles barely hit infantry half the time unless you get a direct hit and cant kill with splash while the MD can Tanks can't be the best counter because that forces everyone to use a tank. And I don't want to have to pull mine out every time I want to take down an enemy HAV. So if I pay 300k AUR for a BPO with IA Swarm Launchers, Lai Dais, and two complex damage mods, I should be a god killer and be the best because I paid more? LOL NO! Again, it's PRO AV. Should it tickle? Should it fire warning shots? Should I just try spraying and praying with my SMG to let you know that I'm about to fire at you? Has your IQ dropped to 30? It used to be Was awesome back in the day 300k is nothing, i pay upto 2mil for a basic hull/mods and a proto turret which gets outshined by a handheld AV weapon which is cheaper and easier to use Also proto AV vs basic vehicles which cannot be upgraded "It used to be, was awsome back in the day" Yeah it used to be awsome for YOU, ever spared a thought for all those poor avers who would have been more effective hurling rocks? All the infantry that had to hide ride round corners! Also I told you not too use those arguments, they have been dismissed many times. 300k is small in comparison, but your forgetting the sp required for Proto suit, (to have pg/cpu) Swarm profciency (for damage) Swarm ammo (for TIC) Swarm reload (as above) Swarm optimization (for pg/cpu) Weapon upgrades (for dmg mods) Armour/shield modules (for survivability) Sidearm modules (as many as swarm modules) Nanocircuitry (for hives) Thats for a decent aver, who only runs av. So id say its about even. A tank might be 10x the cost, but a swarmer will probably die a lot more often than 10x per tank he decommissions. Heavies aren't that heavily armoured, correct, thats the point the HAV of suits isn't as survivable as its lighter counterparts. Your weapons are useless? ******** tell that to the droves of infantry that die to them! Prehaps if you are using missiles against infantry you should try the fragmented, it seems to work pretty well!
Well, I know I said I was gonna ignore this thread cause it was getting stupid but I wanna see what kind of backlash I can cause! Anyway, here we go:
The SP required for a pure AV fit is less than what you need for a pure tank character. The reason is because tanks really only do one thing, kill stuff. The dropsuits are designed around the idea that one (I am just assuming your using assault suit here, this is less true with Heavies) can fulfill many different roles. The tanks only get three options really, and that's the type of turret they want to use. Sure there are active and passive tanks but those are just two different ways of doing the same thing, like choosing whether to use armor or shield dropsuit, or deciding between using armor plates and shield extenders or shield rechargers/regulators or armor reppers. The SP cost of tanks and dropsuits can't really be compared because the trees are set up around a totally different idea, one is set up so you can have a huge variety of weapons and tactics available to you, the other only really lets you decide between how you wanna kill things and which of the two tanks you want to drive. LAV's and Dropships are in the vehicle skill tree and can add variety but skilling into the standard ones is not really worth it right now unless you just really really like them, almost all the jobs they do can be done just as well as the militia versions for less ISK. LLAV's were once good but that was only because the game engine was kinda screwed when it came to running people over, now it might get a few roadkills but unless your enemy is just newbs or horrible you are probably better off just using a militia lav and getting out to shoot them.
BTDubs, if you're trying to make a point as to how many skills dropsuits need, that's kinda hilarious. Tanks had way more skills in Chromosome (Mainly because so many of the upgrade skills now worked for everything then) than they do now and even though we still had a little less, the multipliers were higher to compensate. Only reason we lost those skills is because QQVers. |
Commander Tzu
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
21
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Posted - 2013.10.25 14:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:calvin b wrote:Tanks will be harder to destroy that's for sure. Like it was said to have 3 individuals to fight one tank, now lets just say 3 are on the field with a proto squad  . Yep like I thought, throws hand in the air and camps in MCC. lolno They now have less HP, have to rely on active hardners, no more passive resists, 1 time boosters and no more broken reppers with less slots/skills/mods/vehicles and no adv/proto vehicles either It means you have to use teamwork which of course is an alien concept to the vast majority of crutch users who like to solo all vehicles by sitting on a mountain spamming missiles It means you have to put yourself at risk you know like a tank does It means you actually have to adapt like vehicle pilots have done for the past 6+months This is swarms 1st set of nerfs after 6+months of buffs Get good
OH SHI-! He just used the word "TEAMWORK" when talking to QQVers, it's time to bar your doors and board up your windows, they are gonna start rioting in the streets soon, then probably complain that they should be able to solo a whole group of riot police and that OC spray needs a nerf >.> |
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